Archive for the ‘AMERICA AND ISRAEL’ Tag

JOHN CHUCKMAN COMMENT: AMERICAN COUNTERINTELLIGENCE SAYS ISRAEL HAS BEEN EAVESDROPPING ON THE WHITE HOUSE – ISRAEL DENIES IT BUT ISRAEL’S RECORD FOR TELLING THE TRUTH IS DEPLORABLE AND IT HAS A HISTORY OF RELENTLESS SPYING ON AMERICA   Leave a comment

John Chuckman

COMMENT POSTED TO AN ARTICLE IN HIDEOUT NOW

 

“US counterintelligence officials reportedly say Israel probably planted surveillance devices near the White House; Israeli government issues strong denial”

 

Israel is well-known by American security agencies for the most aggressive spying that they face.

In the past I’ve read some almost laughable stories about their activities.

Such as one about an Israeli spy crawling through ductwork in a Washington office building to arrive at a point over someone’s desk where he could photograph documents.

So, I think it’s extremely likely Israel planted surveillance devices near the White House, as charged.

Denials from that country literally mean nothing.

Netanyahu is a pathological liar. We know that on the highest authority, from an open-mic incident between Presidents Sarkozy and Obama some years back. They agreed you could trust nothing the man said.

JOHN CHUCKMAN COMMENT: AMERICAN EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS AND ISRAEL – WHAT ALWAYS WAS SOMETHING OF AN UNNATURAL RELATIONSHIP SHOWS SOME SIGNS OF DETERIORATING – WHY THIS IS ONLY TO BE EXPECTED AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PREJUDICE – A NOTE ON THE EVANGELICALS AND TRUMP   Leave a comment

John Chuckman

COMMENT POSTED TO AN ARTICLE IN THE INDEPENDENT

 

“Antisemitic beliefs spreading among evangelical Christians in America

“Why do we have pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQ values, and we do not have more freedom to protect our faith?”

 

Evangelicals, despite Old Testament story connections, were not traditionally overly friendly towards Jews and Jewish interests.

Jews were not “saved,” and for a true Evangelical, that is the make-or-break criterion in judging all relationships.

Over and above that, there is the plain fact that American Jews in general were never particularly fond of Evangelicals, some Jews even being rather contemptuous.

I am aware of these things because I grew up in a neighborhood that had a substantial Jewish population. It had also a significant Evangelical population, especially people of Swedish origin, plus a very large Catholic population, people of Irish and Eastern European origins.

Recent connections between Evangelicals and Jews concerning Israel I think are not built with lasting bonds. However, that does not mean that changes in attitude may be accurately characterized as “anti-Semitic,” as your headline does.

We’ve lost all capacity for subtlety and nuance in contemporary society, and just not caring for someone or some interests in fact does not automatically connote hate or anti-anything, it only means a preference for those resembling yourself and sharing common interests.

That ipso-facto way of looking at things such as personal likes and preferences and describing them as hate is now regularly pushed at us in popular media and politics, but that fact alone certainly doesn’t make the claims accurate.

Recent past connections between Evangelicals and Jews at least in part reflect certain American Evangelical leaders and their personal relationships with Israel’s leadership and America’s Israel lobby. An Israeli leader like Netanyahu has actually sought out some these guys in the past to cultivate, and that clearly represents a pragmatic political connection having little to do with fundamental views or values.

Those Evangelical leaders, more ambitious political leaders and empire builders than truly religious leaders, I’m pretty sure never reflected what’s really in the average Evangelical’s heart on the matter.

And those leaders are getting old and some of them have died off, so over time you might expect a change in attitudes. I’m referring to men like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

Also, such leadership is subject to abrupt change, as we saw in the case of Jim Bakker or Jimmy Swaggart. The preaching business is a fairly volatile one.

You can find, for example, Evangelical businessmen who do not like to do business with the “unsaved” of any description. And it’s the same for bonds of friendship. Parts of the American Jewish community, especially the orthodox, display the same kind of preferences.

In Israel, it is actually illegal to proselytize Jews for conversion, a law indicating a very deep separation in values between Evangelicals and Israelis. And it is well known that many parts of the American Jewish community, again especially conservatives, frown on marriage with non-Jews, a view that has often been expressed publicly.

Another factor at work here is that long enough exposure to the harsh realities of modern Israel might be enough to convince even some fervent believers that any relationship between it and the Israel of the Bible is pretty much wishful thinking. Certainly, we know there are American Jews who feel that very way.

I think the existing alliance with Israel’s interest has some parallels with the current alliance of some Evangelical leaders and Donald Trump. It is political in nature and largely synthetic. In some respects, almost unnatural.

Trump represents absolutely no fundamental Evangelical value. He is often foul-mouthed, dishonest, unfaithful, and he is, most certainly, “unsaved.” I am sure many ordinary Evangelicals are uncomfortable with a political relationship some of their politically ambitious leaders promote.

Any strength in the bond comes only from the sloshing overflow of American Patriotism into American Evangelism plus some attitudes like racism and xenophobia, both not impossible to find anywhere in America, including in American fundamentalism. But when so many other factors are wrong, I think the bond cannot not strong or enduring.

There is also the simple fact of a gradual decline in the number of traditional American fundamentalists. Evangelism is fading.

 

Posted August 24, 2019 by JOHN CHUCKMAN in Uncategorized

Tagged with , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

JOHN CHUCKMAN COMMENT: DEMOCRACY AND THE TYRANNY OF A MAJORITY – ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS – USING UGLY NAME-CALLING TO SILENCE LEGITIMATE CRITICISM OF UNFAIRNESS   5 comments

John Chuckman

COMMENT POSTED TO AN ARTICLE IN MIDDLE EAST MONITOR

 

“Jews are being used as human shields in the war of words over anti-Semitism”

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190726-jews-are-being-used-as-human-shields-in-the-war-of-words-over-anti-semitism/

 

In the photo at the top of this article, a woman holds a sign saying, “Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism.”

That should not even need saying. It is simply a truism. A platitude. Not much different in its analytical content than saying the sun will rise tomorrow.

But it does need saying. Very much so.

Why?

Because we have a vigorous and well-financed group claiming otherwise, and doing so incessantly.

The group has its own reasons for saying so, but those reasons have absolutely nothing to do with human rights or prejudice or fairness or even decency.

It is a well understood principle that when you make enough noise about anything, it has an effect.

It is accepted in advertising and in political propaganda, a branch of the same persuasive art as advertising, that “if you throw enough crap at the wall, some of it will stick.”

That unpleasant reality is just part of our human condition. Fanatical or unscrupulous people will always seek to exploit it. Always.

There is a close-to-exact historical parallel for this controversy of labelling people as anti-Semitic because they criticize Israel, one which I think clarifies things considerably.

Was criticizing the old Soviet Union evidence of hatred for Russians, what has today become known as Russophobia?

Of course, it was not.

There was a great deal to criticize about the Soviet Union, about the way it treated people, its own and others, about its readiness to use brute force to reinforce its position, about its respect for human rights and freedom.

And exactly the same is true today of Israel. Almost down to the last detail, just all on a smaller scale of millions rather than tens of millions.

Israel is a state, not a religion or an ethnicity, not a museum exhibit about events from another continent three-quarters of a century ago. It is a place where millions of people try to live their lives, try to have families, try to become educated, try to get ahead, try to build hopes for the future.

More than one kind of people. Millions of another kind of people.

And those millions are absolutely blunted in their basic human drives.

All states are capable of wrongdoing, of abusing others, of misuse of force, of ignoring human rights and even humanity. Such is the nature of states if viewed as tools for a purpose, as they frequently are.

Democracy or claims of democracy are no defense because a majority of people determined to be unfair can, in fact, prevail indefinitely.

Efforts are made in many democratic states to prevent an ill-intentioned “tyranny of a majority” with Bills or Charters of Rights, documents which define basic rights for all and with legal force to redress injustice through the courts.

But Israel has no such minority-protecting document, nor can it ever expect to have one, given the unusual nature of its founding principles.

If a majority of the residents in a state want to be unfair in some way, the state gives them the machinery to enforce the unfairness in perpetuity. This is precisely what we see in Israel.

It is nothing new. We’ve seen it in many historical examples, from the Soviet Union to Nationalist South Africa and to the old American Confederacy.

Those just happen to be examples of what contemporary Israel represents. I’m sure it is not comfortable to be told so, but who ever claimed that truth is always comfortable? Indeed, we know to a certainty that it often is not.

And right-minded people, people who love human liberty and justice, people who uphold classical Western liberal principles, must speak up in such situations, even though it automatically condemns them to be called names and insulted.

 

 

 

 

Posted July 26, 2019 by JOHN CHUCKMAN in Uncategorized

Tagged with , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

JOHN CHUCKMAN COMMENT: PALESTINE’S HANAN ASHRAWI OFFERS THE PERFECT RESPONSE TO THE TRUMP-KUSHNER “PEACE PLAN” – KUSHNER’S ATTITUDES EPITOMIZE 19TH CENTURY COLONIALISM – BUT OF COURSE ISRAEL IS INDEED AN AMERICAN COLONY – OBSERVATIONS IN RESPONSE TO A COMMENT ABOUT JARED KUSHNER AND HIS WIFE IVANKA   Leave a comment

John Chuckman

COMMENT POSTED TO AN ARTICLE IN RUSSIA INSIDER

 

“Jared Kushner’s Palestine ‘Peace’ Plan Is the Lie of the Century”

 

Hanan Ashrawi’s comment about the “peace plan” has it right.

In summary form, she said: Lift the siege, quit stealing our resources, allow Palestinians freedom of movement and control of their borders and airspace and waters, and then watch them build a vibrant, prosperous economy as a free people.

And never to be forgotten are Kushner’s earlier words about Palestinians not being ready to govern themselves.

He displayed a totally colonial attitude, resembling something from the heyday of 19th century imperialism. Arrogant and patronizing.

But, in a sense, Kushner’s ugly words were fitting, too, because, in so many ways, Israel is a colony of the United States, a very special one with extraordinary privileges, but still a colony.

Floated by huge subsidies to serve as America’s pied-a-terre in the Middle East.

And the locals are not really welcome, except when serving as low-cost household help.

_____________________________

Response to a comment about how creepy Kushner looks:

Jared Kushner is indeed a rather creepy type, cold, generally unsmiling.

And definitely effete-looking. Almost elfin in some photos.

But what other kind of person could be married to Ivanka?

She’s a character right out of Dostoevsky, a madwoman who has no sense of her own madness, and she just keeps imposing it on others as though it were the most natural thing in the world.

A woman with the abilities and attitudes of a small store clerk who believes she should be listened to by some of the world’s leading intellectual and political figures and frequently butts-in on their deliberations just to tell them so.

And someone who looks in a mirror every few minutes because there is no one else she so admires.

That last being a quality very much shared with her disturbed and disturbing father.

JOHN CHUCKMAN COMMENT: THE BASIC STORY OF THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND AMERICA’S DEEP STATE – A BRAVE AND SMILING-FACED WOMAN, REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR, TAKES THEM ON   Leave a comment

John Chuckman

COMMENT POSTED TO AN ARTICLE IN RUSSIA INSIDER

 

“The Israeli Lobby Is the Deep State”

 

There is definitely some truth in the title.

At the least, the Israel lobby is a component of the American Deep State, working closely, intimately, with its other components, including the Senate, the Pentagon, CIA, and the State Department.

The Neocons, for example, are entrenched in major Washington departments and agencies, very much including the State Department and the Defense Department, and they are influential in policy. In Trump’s government, Neocons fill several cabinet posts, important ones.

(For those who do not know the term “Neocon,” it is short for Neoconservative and represents a small but influential American political movement with one of its main articles of faith being that the United States should not be shy about using military might to get what it wants in the world. They have openly advocated for various wars. The movement’s connection to Israel is in the fact that that article of faith works to Israel’s advantage in getting what it wants and in the fact that most of the prominent members of the movement are American Jews who keep Israel high in their considerations.)

It is all hard to sort out because Israel’s situation is complex and ambiguous, deliberately so. It is indeed a de facto Middle East colony of the United States, a very special kind of colony, one permitted the appearance and most of the activity of an independent state.

And Israel’s lobby is multifaceted. It certainly includes far more than just AIPAC, which is the main formal avenue for influencing political leaders and distributing campaign funds. There are a number of wealthy individuals, multi-billionaires, who make Israel a chief concern and make extremely large campaign donations as well as providing other services. There are literally lists of private organizations and foundations who work to influence opinions. And there are the chief members of America’s press and broadcasting, all of whom are dedicated to Israel’s welfare and never challenge its excesses.

Hollywood, too, does a lot of work to shape public opinion, even sometimes working directly for Israel, as with its annual big bash dinner to collect millions of dollars for the Israeli Army. It did a lot to support the White Helmets of Syria, who function, under the cover of being an NGO, as a propaganda film-making and advocacy group for Western bombing there. Recently, the luxurious gift bags given to all nominees at the Oscar Awards included a free five-star trip to Israel.

The entire Israel lobby in the United States is literally a kind of multi-corporate venture, quite a large one. It is able to bring pressures from many directions. President Truman, when he was being lobbied to recognize self-declared Israel in 1948, felt under the most intense, almost headache-inducing pressure. He told us so in his writing. Well, since then, the Israel lobby has done nothing but grow in sophistication and size. Now, after each national election, for example, there is a program of paid trips to Israel for all freshmen Congressmen, ostensibly friendly holidays but actually carefully planned information and influence and assessment sessions. Woe betide the new Congressman who turns down the invite or asks the wrong questions on the trip.

America defends even Israel’s worst bloody work because America’s establishment is literally embedded with Israel’s interests.

I admire young Omar’s courage, and I note she usually has a sweet smile on her face.

This is a sincere and kindly critic, but a critic indeed.

And that’s something you are not allowed to be in modern America. If you take the position of critic, you will pay a price, as Representative Ilhan Omar very much is being made to pay.

Her future sources of campaign funding will be hurt, as the Israel Lobby will go after any significant ones she has with suggestions of economic consequences for their businesses. Her mainline press coverage will be very unfriendly. She will be called “anti-Semitic” constantly. And any future opponent in her district will get some seriously focused support, not just in funds but in technical and expert support and in good press.

That is just the way it works. No lobby is better organized or more determined to get at its opponents. We’ve had various cases in the past of critical Congressmen being literally bulldozed. So, I hope her constituency connections are strong and resistant to pressure.

After all, America just fought a good fifteen years of the destructive Neocon Wars, mainly to remake the face of the Middle East for Israel’s benefit. It spent countless billions in a vast effort trying to turn Israel’s blood-soaked neighborhood into something resembling a smiling Ozzie and Harriet suburb of the 1950s.

About two million people have been killed in this “crusade” and millions of hopeless refugees created, refugees afterwards ignored and disparaged in America.

Week after week, Washington just ignores Israeli soldiers cowardly kneeling behind a fence while ambushing civilians, shooting children, women, journalists, and medics as well as others just demonstrating for some rights.

It ignores, too, what is clearly the world’s largest existing concentration camp, a place called Gaza, where people have deliberately been kept in misery for over half a century.

And Washington, that intense defender of private property everywhere, just ignores the vicious thefts and attacks of “settlers” and Israel’s own government in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Just imagine the reaction were a poor and deprived group of American blacks to behave the same way in the suburbs of a city, say, Chicago or Detroit?

The National Guard would be sent in immediately to shoot those taking or destroying property, something they have indeed done a number of times in the past during racial riots.

And Washington, which regards itself as a great defender of democracy, at least in its speeches, simply ignores, decade after decade, the fact that Israel’s government holds millions under its control who do not want to be under its control. It holds them without rights of any kind, without votes, and without enjoying the basic Western principle of rule of law.

It’s all beyond appalling, and then American officials go on and on with charges and accusations against a decent leader like President Maduro of Venezuela.

_____________________

Response to a comment saying almost half the bills passed in Congress this year mention Israel:

How about a State of the Union speech featuring Israeli interests? Bizarre.

George Washington, who started the practice of the State of the Union Speech, in his Farewell Address to the Nation, warned against “foreign entanglements,” and Israel is about as great an entanglement as you could come up with.

Trump has been Israel’s greatest willing helper.

Willing, that is, in return for the kind of support Omar will not receive, for the kind of support she is being harshly criticized for openly discussing. He literally can expect tens of millions of dollars for his 2020 campaign in return for such lawless acts as moving the American Embassy to Jerusalem.

JOHN CHUCKMAN COMMENT: ANOTHER GAZA MASSACRE BY ISRAEL – THE MODERN RE-CREATION OF ISRAEL HAS SADLY PROVED A PRETTY INGLORIOUS CHAPTER IN HISTORY – RECORD OF EVENTS BEHIND ALL THAT BLOODSHED   1 comment

John Chuckman

COMMENT POSTED TO AN ARTICLE IN GOV’TSLAVES

 

“US media’s silent complicity in Israeli massacre in Gaza”

____________________________

Response to a comment saying Israel was the Jewish homeland and Palestinians don’t belong there:

Your comment is really uninformed and straight from a script.

In case you hadn’t noticed, the Ashkenazi, the people who run modern Israel and the people who provided most of the early Zionist movement, in fact are a Germanic people whose native language is Yiddish, a dialect of German.

As a people, DNA tests show they arose no more than a thousand years ago.

They have no relationship, except sharing their religious beliefs, with the Biblical Hebrews. The Hebrew language was perpetuated by distant Jewish religious schools in exactly the way Arabic is perpetuated in distant Muslim religious schools. Muslims believe they should read Koran in its original, if possible. Jews believe the same thing about Torah.

If anyone qualifies as what remains of the ancient Hebrews of two thousand years ago, it is the Palestinians themselves.

The Romans never removed the Hebrews from their province despite rebellion. It was not the Roman practice in its conquests to do so, and the Romans, really good record-keepers, left no record of the Hebrews being sent packing. It would have been a pretty big operation, and it would have caused ripples and disturbance all over the Empire, but there is absolutely no record.

After all, Jewish people embrace many myths and stories with little basis other than tradition, just as all religious groups do. There is no record of Jews as slaves in Egypt. Not a single word or artifact. The name Moses is indeed said to be from the Egyptian. There is no record of King David. And of course, there is no record of Jonah or Lot’s Wife or a hundred other matters.

The entire Askenazi story of Jews wandering the world after expulsion from the Holy Land is just that, a story.

It ties them into the Hebrews they mimic, but it just has no basis in fact, anymore than all those earlier Hebrew stories have.

The Ashkenazi, a Central and Eastern European people, were undoubtedly converted to Judaism by Hebrews long ago who saw the blazing success of Christianity in its evangelism – Christianity having started as one of many Jewish sects and splinter groups going back to the time of the Dead Sea Scrolls – and for a while, the Hebrews seem to have copied the Christians’ evangelical efforts in hopes of having their always fairly small community grow.

That is almost certainly how we ended up with small groups of Jews in a number of scattered places, including even Africa.

Even were it true that today’s Jews were the descendants of the ancient Hebrews – and it emphatically is untrue – what possible and reasonable claim to Palestine would they have after two thousand years of supposed absence.

Surely, no more than the Greeks would have claiming part of Turkey for having won the Trojan War three thousand years ago, as described in Homer’s Iliad. And there are countless other examples of ancient events – wars and movements of peoples – which, if admitted into ways of settling modern boundaries and affairs, would turn the world into chaos, just as the Middle East has been turned into chaos by Israel.

This would all be laughable, basing land claims and rights in the 21st century on questionable events from one group’s ancient holy book, were it not so tragic.

You claim what is not yours, and you claim it based on 2500-year old religious texts saying some “God” gave it to you. What a promising standard for 21st century arrangements.

The silliness only goes unchallenged because many in the West feel guilty over the Holocaust and are more than happy to see yet a different party, the poor Palestinians, be provided as sacrificial lambs to angry Jewish people. The whole modern re-creation of Israel is precisely about that and little more.

The Holocaust – used as a way to justify modern Israel and to defend its many brutal excesses – occurred on another continent, Europe, and it involved one set of German people abusing another set of Germanic people, the Ashkenazi. The Palestinians, in Western Asia, had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

But they were in a very weak and vulnerable position owing to European colonialism, so they were made to pay.

Just imagine an arrogant government official in Britain vaguely promising – and the Balfour declaration’s wording is indeed vague – a Jewish homeland to some Zionists whose help was needed by Britain in WWI, a homeland which was already the home of other people, although of course the British ruled it as part of their long efforts to keep a passage to India, the Crown Jewel of their Empire.

The declaration has no basis in proper law, was entirely arbitrary and self-serving, and yet that little note is kept in Israel today in a glass display case as though it were the American Declaration of Independence.

No, the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust, yet it is the Palestinians who were made to pay a great price, and they are paying still. Generations of occupation and abuse, countless attacks and debasements and assassinations, deprivation of all the norms of civilized life. No rights, no citizenship, no freedom of movement.

The leaders of today’s Israel seem to have learned only one thing from their grandparents’ terrible abuse at the hands of the Nazis, and that is how to copy them in many of their horrible behaviors to get what you want.

Gaza, to any unbiased eye, is just a vast concentration camp, one allowed to endure for more than half a century in misery.

But everyone in the West is intimidated against saying so, intimated by the constantly-repeated slur of “anti-Semitism” and by the power of the United States, a world bully today behind whose skirts Israel hides.

Of course, the United States is happy with the situation. It did not have to take all those Jewish refugees it very much had shown that it did not want, having turned boatloads away before the killing of the Holocaust was started. And given today’s arrogant and hyper-aggressive world-imperial United States, Israel provides it a handy colony and pied-a-terre in the Middle East.

It’s all a pretty inglorious chapter in modern history.

Posted April 4, 2018 by JOHN CHUCKMAN in Uncategorized

Tagged with , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

JOHN CHUCKMAN COMMENT: AMERICAN EMBASSIES ATTACKED IN SEVERAL COUNTRIES OF THE MIDDLE EAST – WORDS ON ISRAEL’S HISTORICAL CLAIMS   Leave a comment

JOHN CHUCKMAN

POSTED RESPONSE TO A COLUMN IN TORONTO’S GLOBE AND MAIL

And a well-earned attack it is.

Abuse and contempt for a people only can go so far before the people respond.

Unless, that is, you are a country like Israel with a demonstrated capacity to slaughter those you abuse.
______________________________

“JOHN CHUCKMAN and many other fools, are mistaking the handful of backsliding, non practicing, moderate ‘muslims’ that they think they know, for the real thing.

“What makes them think that such pseudo ‘muslims’ speak for Islam?”

It doesn’t get more fanatical and ignorant than that comment.

You cannot summarily characterize more than a billion people.

It is precisely the mindset you display that allowed certain people in the late 1930s and the 1940s to do what they did to whole groups in Europe.

Precisely.

Just as it is precisely Mr. Netanyahu’s demands and violence and irrationality that closely parallel those of the German leader in the Munich Crisis.

Just examine your own beliefs by doing a thought experiment.

If the Muslim people are as awful and hopeless as you believe, why did the Zionist leaders want to found Israel in the middle of them?

Surely that renders the leaders stark-raving mad?

And why have several million Europeans and Americans and others gone there to claim Israeli citizenship?

Seems a wholly irrational, almost suicidal act if Muslims are as you and several other mad barkers here claim.
______________________________________

“His real name is John Phuckedupman”

As soon as people start writing nasty adolescent things like this man, you know their quality of intellect and ethics, in an instant.

By the way, he does such things using a pseudonym.

A genuine coward.

Like Netanyahu.

Like the creator of the film.

Pathetic.
_______________________________________________

“I have a proposition for all you lefties who hate jews and love islam. After you marry your boyfriend in the spring, why not spend your honeymoon in the Middle East? I’m sure they’ll be thrilled to have visitors who despise jews as much as they do.”

“Lefties” do not hate Jews.

“Lefties” do not love Islam.

“Lefties” just happen to care about truth and reason and ethics.

Qualities you clearly are missing.

And qualities you in fact hate them for.
___________________________________

Again, if you hate Muslims as much as some people commenting here, it clearly is the most irrational act in the contemporary world to found a state and live surrounded by a couple of hundred million of the people you hate.

Kind of like a believing member of the Klu Klux Klan buying a house in the center of Detroit or on the South Side of Chicago.

Not brave, just irrational.

As far as ancestral homeland, well the world of 2,000 years ago has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the world today.

Nor should it have.

Otherwise, Rome would still rule Palestine. Greece would rule Turkey owing to the Trojan War.

So many states ruled Palestine if you go back several thousand years that you could say Egypt should rule it today or Lebanon (the Phoenicians) or Iran (Persia), and on and on.

By the way, an idea of long speculation – the actual origin of Ashkanazi European Jews – has now been demonstrated scientifically through extensive DNA sampling by researchers at Johns-Hopkins University.

Their origin is not the Hebrew people of Biblical lore but the Kazahr people who live in the Caucasus one thousand years ago.

The idea has long been a source of speculation – there are many subtle but not definitive non-DNA bits of evidence – and some of the Zionist founders were well aware of it.

Now it is demonstrated.

Ancestral claim to Palestine?

Pretty clearly not.

And there is also the idea, with a growing body of evidence, that it is the Palestinians themselves who are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews.

The Romans never followed the practice of scattering a whole people out of a homeland they conquered. They would kill leaders and stubborn opponents, but those willing to accept the relatively mild yoke of Rome were always left to be.

Rome even tolerated all religious practices in their conquered lands, so long as the people were not opposed to Rome.

Of course centuries and centuries of history changed the religious identity of these descendants of the Hebrews, as it did so many others in many parts of the ancient world.
____________________________________________________

“you think these countries are the only ones with negative influences in that cess pool you should add a few of those european countries to your list, espeacially france and england.’

No, of course not.

Abuse has occurred throughout human history.

Organized Christianity’s history of abuse and horrors is largely behind us, but it was an immense and complex history of horrors.

But these are the people today before our eyes as it were – a world of television, cell phones, and the Internet.

And I sympathize with the little guy, the victim, always.

And I really tire of the flood of prejudiced and ignorant statements about a whole people.

For those who want a tale of Christianity’s history of bloodshed, see:

http://chuckmanwords.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/of-war-islam-and-israel/